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By Umpire
#19119
That is a landslide 92 per cent mandate for the new tournament, even if one counts Kent's somewhat bizarre and pusillanimous 'abstention' as a vote against.

Every cricket lover in Britain needs this to work for the good of the game and hopefully the negativity can stop while the ECB negotiates the broadcasting contracts.

The tournament will work, if only because the ECB now has so much invested in it that they will throw enough money at it to ensure that it succeeds and ticket prices will be cheap with big family discounts.

The new audience has to be there. It may not be as big as the ECB hopes but one has to believe that we can entice at least a small slice of the 99 per cent of the population who currently never go near a cricket ground.

My contact at the ECB quoted earlier in this thread and who was unerringly accurate in his information says there will be a major promotional campaign among the ethnic communities who only turn up when India and Pakistan are playing and don't know or care what a 'county' is. The ECB's market research suggets the number of potential new spectators among the Asian communities is several times greater than than the entire existing audience for county cricket. Let's hope that is right. The host grounds will certainly have very large local ethnic poulations on which to draw, while the non-metropolitan audience in Taunton and Canterbury that doesn't want to travel will have the choice of attending the 50 over competition or watching the new T20 competiton on TV.

The campaign against the city tournament has been a little like 'project fear' in the EU referendum - a perfectly decent argument wrecked by over-the-top predictions of doom and destruction.

It is time for us all to come together in support of the new competiton. For, paradoxical as it may seem , the success of the eight team tournament is the last throw of the dice to keep the existing model of county cricket on the road.
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By gmdf
#19122
Kent didn't abstain - like the other two counties who oppose the proposed T20 competition, they didn't return the letter agreeing to the proposals. It wasn't a vote per se, so no 'abstention' or 'no' vote could be made. You signed & returned it or not. Kent asked their members for their views, and have acted upon those views. That's what a members' club should do, surely?

I read what you say 'the new audience has to be there'...that's presumably what Harrison meant when he said it was a "leap of faith". Personally I rather doubt it - and if the ECB had hard edged evidence to support this, why haven't they made it public? And whilst no doubt the games will be declared a success even if the crowds/impact is far less than the pious hopes of the ECB and its acolytes claim, you have to ask what the cost will be to the game as a whole in England & Wales... Like many other supporters I would much rather have the proposed level of advertising etc. had been spent on the T20 Blast - a competition already up and running and growing in popularity.

I also note that you - like others who support the new format - want to close down debate and criticism. Now, I have to tell you, this sounds like something that used to happen in Eastern Europe or the USSR....or may still happen in Cuba or North Korea. It's not healthy.

I have to tell you I won't be gagged, and I doubt if anyone who agrees with me will be also.
By Ironside
#19124
In its pursuit of this new competition, the ECB have already
  • devalued the CC by setting up fixtures where teams do not all play each other twice.
  • sqeezed the RLC into an early season slot which is virtually guaranteed to attract little support. For Northants, no home games on Friday Saturday or Sunday. Fail to win any of the first three games and you are out leaving five dead games
  • abandoned the T20 concept of Friday night games spread over the season. Again for Northants no weekend home games and three midweek games in one week. Almost as if Graves and Harrison want the existing T20 to fail.
As for Kent, at least they sought the views of their members. Absolutely no consultation with members in many counties. Counties seem to have been discouraged by ECB to consult members - those who actually go to games regularly - presumably because they feared the response.
And why criticise Kent when Surrey, who have argued against it all along, finally sign up to it so as not to upset the ECB.
By Umpire
#19125
I'm sorry , but you are wrong. gmdf: Kent say they abstained and will now "act as a critical friend" in developing the new tournament.

Can I ask you honestly, do you not think "I won't be gagged" and comparing youself to a dissident in Cuba and North Korea is somewhat melodramatic and rather insulting to those whose free speech is genuinely denied?

You have not been gagged and you are not a martyr. You can protest until you are blue in the face. And you probably will. But what good will it do you or, more importantly, the game we love? The Kent approach of acting as a "critical friend" to the new tournament despite their reservations is a far more pragmatic and sensible response.

Yours is riddled with contradictions. You say you "doubt" there is any new audience for cricket (in which case we must accept that it will inevitably die). Then you say you want the ECB to spend millions promoting the T20 Blast instead. What is the point of that if, as you say, there is no new audience?

The ECB's reasearch has been widely circulated and one of the key target audiences is the ethnic communities. And that can only be a good thing. Have you seen how the grounds fill when India and Pakistan are touring and have you asked yourself why we never see those faces again uintil the next time India/Pakistan are on tour?

You can either get on the bus and try to make the best of the journey, as the likes of Kent and Surrey have decided to do, or be left behind crying impotently in the wilderness. The die is now cast and those are the only choices available.
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By gmdf
#19171
Umpire wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:44 am
I'm sorry , but you are wrong. gmdf: Kent say they abstained and will now "act as a critical friend" in developing the new tournament.

Can I ask you honestly, do you not think "I won't be gagged" and comparing youself to a dissident in Cuba and North Korea is somewhat melodramatic and rather insulting to those whose free speech is genuinely denied?

You have not been gagged and you are not a martyr. You can protest until you are blue in the face. And you probably will. But what good will it do you or, more importantly, the game we love? The Kent approach of acting as a "critical friend" to the new tournament despite their reservations is a far more pragmatic and sensible response.

Yours is riddled with contradictions. You say you "doubt" there is any new audience for cricket (in which case we must accept that it will inevitably die). Then you say you want the ECB to spend millions promoting the T20 Blast instead. What is the point of that if, as you say, there is no new audience?

The ECB's reasearch has been widely circulated and one of the key target audiences is the ethnic communities. And that can only be a good thing. Have you seen how the grounds fill when India and Pakistan are touring and have you asked yourself why we never see those faces again uintil the next time India/Pakistan are on tour?

You can either get on the bus and try to make the best of the journey, as the likes of Kent and Surrey have decided to do, or be left behind crying impotently in the wilderness. The die is now cast and those are the only choices available.



1. Well if Kent 'abstained' so did Middlesex & Essex, as all three counties simply refused to sign the letter to agree to the changes to the ECB's constitution to allow the new T20. Kent described this as an 'abstention', but it was exactly the same as the other counties. Howe do I know? Well Jamie Clifford has said so - both in the press release and at the members' forum today. Still, I'm sure you know better... :no:

2. What I said was:
I also note that you - like others who support the new format - want to close down debate and criticism. Now, I have to tell you, this sounds like something that used to happen in Eastern Europe or the USSR....or may still happen in Cuba or North Korea. It's not healthy.
And you replied by saying:
Can I ask you honestly, do you not think "I won't be gagged" and comparing youself to a dissident in Cuba and North Korea is somewhat melodramatic and rather insulting to those whose free speech is genuinely denied?
Now was I comparing myself to a dissident in North Korea? I really don't think so. But I was misquoted by you. Which seems to be somewhat your trademark way of arguing, to be honest. :yes:

3. There is an audience for Cricket - as the T20 has shown over the last 15 years (& other new competitions the counties have introduced over the last 50 years or so). But it hasn't been well served by the ECB constantly changing the timing and structure of the competition. Nor has it ever been given the other advantages the new competition will have (live. free-to-view coverage, tons of advertising etc.)

4. There are probably many reasons why Pakistan & Indian teams get good support when touring England, but the lack of city teams isn't necessarily one of the. Want new crowds? Well, why play in the same places? Instead of Manchester, Cardiff, Nottingham, Leeds, London, Southampton & Birmingham, why not Newcastle, Sheffield, Liverpool, Bristol, Wolverhampton, Sunderland, Luton etc.?

5. You may say:
You can either get on the bus and try to make the best of the journey, as the likes of Kent and Surrey have decided to do, or be left behind crying impotently in the wilderness. The die is now cast and those are the only choices available.
But the feeling I got from today's club forum was that one battle may have been lost, but the war is far from over, and what is proposed now is very different from what may well emerge in 2020.
By Umpire
#19174
gmdf wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:45 pm
t I was misquoted by you. Which seems to be somewhat your trademark way of arguing, to be honest.
What a peculiar response. I have no idea who you are and vice versa - so why the dyspeptic personals and aggressiveness ?

You are clearly a WUM if you are suggesting the CBT should be played at non-TMGs at Liverpool , Wolverhampton, Sunderland and Luton. There is an argument for playing the 50 overs games in such places, but not the showcase jewel in the crown tournament, the TV rights for which will be sold all over the world.

And if we are going to play at Liverpool and Luton, why not Havana and Pyongyang in solidarity with the 'dissidents' with whom you claim affinity?

And let us get this straight: Kent abstained, while Middlesex and Essex voted against. It was said so on Sky this afternoon by Michael Atherton, who was scathing about Kent's Janus-like position.

The "war is far from over" - so what war is that? There you again with your pantomime melodrama. There is no war except in your own excitable mind. There is a 92 per cent mandate for the new tournament and the ECB - with the support of everyone in cricket apart from a handful of dissidents who insultingly think they are living in North Korea and Cuba -is determined to make it work.

If you could just calm down, jettison the hysteria and try to be rational for a moment , stop your daft detours to North Korea and Cuba and Liverpool and Luton, and consider future generations rather than just your parochial self-interest, then we could perhaps have a sensible debate.

At the moment , it's like debating with a great wobbling plate of jelly!
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By gmdf
#19176
Umpire wrote:You are clearly a WUM if you are suggesting the CBT should be played at non-TMGs at Liverpool , Wolverhampton, Sunderland and Luton. There is an argument for playing the 50 overs games in such places, but not the showcase jewel in the crown tournament, the TV rights for which will be sold all over the world.
Sorry, I thought you (and the ECB) said this was about 'growing the audience for the game'. But now you are suggesting it's not...

Try to be just a little consistent, maybe think before you post in future? It's not difficult, you know...
And if we are going to play at Liverpool and Luton, why not Havana and Pyongyang in solidarity with the 'dissidents' with whom you claim affinity?
You still don't get it do you? A few posts ago you tried to browbeat all those who disagree with you just as the old regimes of the communist world did to their citizens - in effect you said 'shut up and toe the party line for the greater good'. And you can't stand the fact that some of us dare to disagree with you. Sign of instability, old chap... :doh:
And let us get this straight: Kent abstained, while Middlesex and Essex voted against. It was said so on Sky this afternoon by Michael Atherton, who was scathing about Kent's Janus-like position.
Well if Michael Atherton said that he's wrong - he just failed to play a shot and the ball has knocked over his off peg. I'd rather believe the people who actually made the decision than an employee of the Murdoch empire who wasn't there, and has only second hand information. 'Fake news' I think is the appropriate term (if that is what he actually said...)

You can think all is done and dusted - that's fine. You can support whatever you like. But I'm not convinced that there isn't quite a large amount of this that is still to be worked out.

It worries me that you are so unable to debate reasonably - and seem determined to demand 100% agreement with all your pronouncements. It reminds me of some posters I've come across on other Cricket boards - would you like to own up to other names you've posted under? (&, in some cases, been banned under). Just in the spirit of transparency... :thinking:
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By TWrex
#19191
The brand spanking new official KCCC website seems to think we have abstained by their headline for the item dated 24th April complete with a picture of Mr Clifford 'Kent to abstain from new T20 ballot' & starts 'Kent Cricket today announced that the club has abstained on proposed changes to the articles of association of ECB'. The word abstention does appear in the article, not that I understand the difference, but it is no surprise that Kent have been seen as having abstained as they do say so themselves. Has something changed between Monday & the Thursday or have the club talked themselves into circles before disappearing up their own power play?
I say abstain, you say abstention, but the whole thing isn't about to be called off.
By Bazpan
#19264
This debate, wherever it's held, often ends up getting mired in debates about whether it's even permissible to have a debate. That "Get on the bus" line from Umpire is troubling, since the other half of that taunt usually goes "or get run over". The unstoppable juggernaut of City T20 is coming. Even if you can't help having misgivings about it, you'd better act as though you don't, otherwise you're a suppressive person. It's all a bit redolent of the "You lost - get over it" refrain favoured by some (not all!) pro-Brexit people. As with Brexit, must we really just get over it if, on the evidence to hand, we think City T20 will do more harm than good?

We oughtn't kid ourselves that we're achieving a lot by posting our views on an internet forum. Whatever will be will be. So we should allow each other the licence to celebrate what we admire, and to slag off that which we don't (giving reasons, where possible) - much as one might do while sitting across a pub table from an interlocutor holding the opposite view. Else, what's the point of a forum?

Even Umpire acknowledges that "the campaign against the city tournament" can be "a perfectly decent argument". So why not have that argument, even now? As with Brexit, those who are against City T20 will be hoping that somehow it doesn't come to pass, or at least that (as they say) the 'best possible deal can be secured' for the normal county programme. I don't suppose Graves and Harrison are sitting hunched over a laptop and frantically F5ing View From The Boundary, either looking for guidance or monitoring dissent. So we needn't worry about displeasing them with sceptical enquiry. Or even negativity!
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By admissioninfo
#19568
ECB set to create new city-based T20 competition by 2020 to rival Indian Premier League

THE hopes are sky high and the stakes higher still with ECB bosses insisting yesterday that nothing less than "the future relevance of the game" in this country is on the line.
But there was also confidence from the current custodians that the creation of a new city-based T20 tournament set to rival the Indian Premier League and the Big Bash may just be the solution to all the game's problems.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––


Tom Harrison, ECB chief executive, will this morning seek final approval from the board ratifying a change in the constitution allowing the creation of new competition.

It will be the first not to involve all the 18 first-class counties, breaking with over century of tradition.

The T20 competition, which is yet to have a brand name and will run during school summer holidays from 2020, will feature eight teams and for the first time have no roots in the county game.

First-class counties, who will vote for the amendment to their own constitution allowing the tournament's creation today, have been assured the T20 Blast will continue to run.

They have also been assured that £1.3million a year as their share of the new competition's revenue streams will come their way.
By Umpire
#19786
I'm doing my best to ignore you as you have shown that you are only able to respond to anybody who disagree with you with abuse and arrogance. But you still don't get it do you?

The closing date for the broadcasting tenders ends in 25 days time and the 'winners' will be announced two days later. And the sums involved are "eye watering", aparently.
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By gmdf
#19788
Umpire wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:13 pm
I'm doing my best to ignore you as you have shown that you are only able to respond to anybody who disagree with you with abuse and arrogance. But you still don't get it do you?

The closing date for the broadcasting tenders ends in 25 days time and the 'winners' will be announced two days later. And the sums involved are "eye watering", aparently.
Please do ignore me.

I find your comments so rude that I am assuming you are trying to bully me into silence.

I can tell you that won't work - I abhor ignorant, arrogant bullies of your sort.
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